This Week's Reading Assignment

Here is your reading for the week:
Deut. 1 – 12 (Deut. 12:1-13=John 4:20-24)

This Week's Reading Assignment

The reading for this week is pretty straightforward: Num. 27 – 36. Finish the year by finishing Numbers! :)

This weekend!

Just to make sure you know - if you are in the choir, practice is from NINE am to Noon this Saturday. We are practicing one hour earlier due to the weather cancellation Wednesday night.

Also, if you have agreed to make a piece for the tabernacle be sure to bring it on Sunday morning. Please try to be at Sunday School by or before 9 on Sunday because we have something for you to sign. Thanks!

This Week's Reading Assignment

Here is your reading for the week:
Num. 16 – 26:34 (Num. 21:4-9=John 3:14-15 & 6:48-51 / Num. 24:17 prophesies Christ)
1 Chron. 7:14-19 / Num. 26:35-37 / 1 Chron. 7:20-29 / Num. 26:38-65

Sunday School

We have decided to do a group Sunday school class for the rest of the month. We are going to learn all we can about the tabernacle. Hope to see you all there!

Spaghetti Dinner

Spaghetti Dinner is tonight! Be there at 4:30 to help!

This Week's Reading Assignment

Here is your reading for the week:
Num. 4 – 15 (Num. 7:89=Heb. 4:16)

Sunday School

Hello Youth! I sure hope you are doing your reading this week because you are going to need to have it done by Sunday or you will be at a disadvantage! You succeeded in reaching our 80% goal for quizzes turned in so you get breakfast!!! But we are also going to have a competition based on this week's reading, so be sure you get it done! See you Sunday!

This Week's Reading Assignment

Here is your reading for the week. The cross-references are in parenthesis:

Lev. 19 – 27 / Num. 1 – 3 (Lev. 19 is summed up in Matt. 22:34-40 / Lev. 21:10=Matt. 26:65)

I know that the law can be difficult to read because of all the detail and because it seems irrelevant to us today. But it is so very relevant!! We cannot fully understand what Christ did for us until we realize what He saved us from! Be sure to do your reading this week.

Youth Christmas Party

Here is the info on the Youth Christmas Party:

This will be a picture scavanger hunt! Meet at church at 5:30 for opening and dinner, then we will break for the scavanger hunt around Fenton. Come back to church for judging and bible study. IMPORTANT: bring your favorite Christmas dessert and make sure that your group has a camera. also you will be picking groups, so if you want to have a lot of people bring frineds!!
For more info contact:
Nikki, Ashley, or Jacki
or even easier just write on the facebook wall!
HOPE TO SEE YOU ALL THERE!!

This Week's Reading Assignment

Hello everyone!

Here is your reading for this week: Lev. 7 – 18 (Lev. 16=Matt. 27:50-51 & Heb. 10:19-25)

Also, don't forget your tests are due by this Sunday!!! If you want us to cook you breakfast 80% of you have to fill them out and turn them in. If you have lost your quiz it is on the notes tab of our Facebook page. It is also here on the blog. You can either turn in a paper copy or message me (Shannon) your answers.

Sunday School Quiz - The Beginning

Just in case any of you missed Sunday School this week, or misplaced your quiz, here it is. Remember, this quiz needs to be completed and returned by November 28th. If at least 80% of you return it by then we will make you breakfast on December 5th!

1. Quote the first mention of the Holy Spirit in the bible. Gen. 1:1-3
2.Was Jesus involved in creation? Col. 1:15-20
3.According to Psalm 33:6-9 and Genesis 1, what did God do to form his creation?
4.Quote another reference to the trinity found in Gen. 1:26.
5.God rested on the 7th day and made this day unique calling it __________. Gen. 2:3
6.God formed man out of _______ but what gave man his life? Gen. 2:7
7.Did God create man to work? Gen. 2:15
8.Why (Gen. 2:18) and how (Gen. 2:22) did God create Eve?
9.Paradise was lost because of sin but will it ever be resotred? Rev. 21:1
10.Was a sacrificial death necessary for Adam and Eve's sin? Gen. 3:21
11.Whose voice was crying out from the groound in Gen. 4:10?
12.True or False: There were many hand tools and musical instruments in Adam's days? Gen. 4:21-22
13.How many years did it take to complete the ark? Gen. 6:3
14.Who shut Noah in the ark? Gen. 7:16
15.What was the first thing Noah did when he got off the ark? Gen. 8:20
16.When did animals begin to fear man? Gen. 9:2
17.True or False: The earth had multiple languages prior to the Tower of Babel. Gen. 11:1
18.How old was Abram when God called him? Gen. 12:4
19.According to Gen. 14:14, how many trained men were there in Abram's house?
20.Who foreshadowed Jesus in Gen. 14:18 that is mentioned in Hebrews 5:6?
21.What did God say would be comparable to the number of Abram's offspring? Gen. 15:5
22.True or False: God told Abraham the story of Israel becoming slaves and then being freed before his son was even born? Gen. 15:12-16
23.What was the name of Abraham's firstborn son? Gen. 16:11
24.Did God tell Abraham that he would be the father of one nation or many nations? Gen. 17:4-5
25.What was the covenant that God said Abraham and his son must keep? Gen. 17:8-14
26.How old was Sarah when Isaac was born? Gen. 17:17-18:10
27.What did God use to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah? Gen. 19:24
28.True or False: Abraham believed in resurrection before there were any resurrections. Gen. 22:5
29.Did Abraham think that burying the dead was a big priority? Gen. 23:1-4
30.What instructions did Abraham give his sons about marriage? Gen. 24:3
31.What did Jacob and Esau represent in the womb? Gen. 25:23
32.Can marrying an unbeliever bring heartache and bitterness? Gen. 26:34-35
33.Did Jacob see God face to face? Gen. 32:30
34.What did God give to Jacob in Gen. 35:10?
35.Name the 12 sons of Israel in Gen. 35:23-26
36.What son did Israel love most? Gen. 37:3
37.How many shekels of silver did Joseph's brother sell him for? Gen. 37:28
38.In Genesis 41:37-40, what was in Joseph?
39.How high was Joseph in the land of Egypt? Gen. 41:40
40.What did God use to reunite Jacob and Joseph? Gen. 41:56
41.True or False: Jacob blessed Pharaoh. Gen. 47:7
42.In Genesis 49:10, what shall never depart from Judah?
43.In Genesis 50:25, what did Joseph make his brother's promise?

This Week's Reading Assignment

Here is your reading for the week. Cross-references are in parenthesis. We are getting into Leviticus and many people moan about reading through it. But let me encourage you, read it with God's holiness in mind. There is no better place to see how impossible it is to be holy without him than Leviticus!

Ex. 35 – 40 (...Ex. 39:8-14=Rev.21:12-21) / Lev. 1 – 6 (Lev. 5:7-13=Luke 2:21-24)

This Week's Reading Assignment

Here is your reading for the week. Cross-references are in parenthesis.

Ex. 23 – 34 (Ex. 26=Heb.9 / Ex. 29:38-43=Heb. 7:27 / Ex. 31:14=Mark 2:27-28 / Ex. 33:11=Heb. 4:16 & John 15:15 / Ex.34:29-34=2 Cor. 3:7-18)

Spaghetti Dinner

This Wednesday is the spaghetti dinner. If you want to work be there by 4:30!

This Week's Reading Assignment

Here is your reading for this week. Be sure to look up all the cross references.

Ex. 12 – 22 (Ex. 13:1-2=Luke 2:22-23 / Ex. 16:4a=John 6:32-35 / Ex. 16:4b=Matt. 6:11 / Ex. 19:5-6=1 Pet. 2:9 / Ex. 21:32=Matt. 26:15 – Jesus sold for price of slave)

This Week's Reading Assignment

There are only 11 chapters to read this week! I believe in you, you can do it!! Here it is:


Ex. 1 – 6:27 / 1 Chron. 6:1-4a / Ex. 6:28 – 11

This Week's Reading Assignment

Here is your reading for the week. Sorry for the delay as we are out of town!

Gen. 42 – 45 / Gen. 46:1-9 / 1 Chron. 5:1-6 / Gen 46:10-12 / 1 Chron. 2:18-55 / 1 Chron. 4:1-23 / Gen. 46:13 / 1 Chron. 7:1-5 / Gen. 46:14-18 / 1 Chron. 7:6-12 / Gen 46:23-48 / Gen. 49

30- Hour Famine/Hay Ride

The 30 hour famine is this Friday! You should have already turned in your permission slip to Terry. Below is a copy of the schedule:

Famine Weekend Schedule
FRIDAY
4:30 p.m. Check-in at church
5:00 p.m. Leave for the Huff ’s
6:30 p.m. Begin the weekend’s activities
(construction of a shanty town,
interactive studies, etc.)
12:00 a.m. Nighttime devotion
12:30 a.m. Lights out
SATURDAY
8:00 a.m. Rise and shine!
8:30 a.m. Begin the day’s activities
4:30 p.m. “Break the fast” meal
6:00 p.m. Hayride
8:30 p.m. Leave the Huff ’s
9:30 p.m. Arrive back at church

Spaghetti Dinner

This Wednesday is the Spaghetti Dinner. Be there by 4:30 ready to work!

This Week's Reading Assignment

Here is this week's reading assignment. Please remember the (bold verses in parentheses) are your cross-references. Don't skip them, they are vital to seeing how the Bible all goes together!

Gen. 32 – 35 / Gen. 36 / 1 Chron. 2:1-2 / Gen. 37 – 38 (Gen. 38:6=Matt. 1:3) / Gen. 39 – 41

This Week's Reading Assignment

Here is your reading for this week:

Gen. 23 – 25:4 / 1 Chron. 1:32-33 / Gen. 25:5-6 / 1 Chron. 1:34 / Gen. 25:19-26 / Gen. 25:7-11 / Gen. 26:1 – 28:6 / Gen. 36:1-43 / 1 Chron. 1:35-54 / Gen. 28:10 – 31:55

Look later in the week for some study notes.

More to think about while you read

This is the final installation of study notes for this week, I hope that you have enjoyed your reading and that you have learned a lot! We will cover Genesis 19-22 here.

1. In 19:1 we read of two angels. These 2 are mentioned as if we have already met them, leading us to assume that they are two of the three visitors from chapter 18. Also note the time that the visitors arrived in 18:1 and the time the two angels arrived in Sodom in 19:1. This was a journey of 40 miles and most commentators agree that these two events occurred on the same day.

2. Earlier in Genesis we read about the people of Sodom. What did we read in 13:13 and 18:20? Now we see how great the sin of the town was. The angels give Lot the waning to get himself and his family out of the city. Unfortunately his sons-in-law did not believe him and were left in the destruction of the city.

3. In 19:30-38 we find another instance of people using the accepted "law of the land" instead of following God's law. Notice the use of the phrase "as is the custom all over the earth" in verse 32. Regardless of how normative society might have viewed this practice, God's law had no place for it. The descendants that came from this union were a trouble to the Israelites from that time forward.

4. In chapter 20 Abraham once again tries to avoid conflict by calling Sarah his sister, unfortunately conflict occurs because of this instead.

5. In chapter 21, the long awaited promise is fulfilled. Sarah names the baby Isaac which means 'he laughs'. Sarah explains her choice of the name in 21:6-7.

6. In 21:8-21 we read more of the conflict that was caused by Sarah and Abraham's unwillingness to wait patiently on the Lord's timing. Because of the conflict Hagar and Ishmael are sent away. It is important to remember when you read verses 15-18 that Ishmael is not a small boy but a young teen at this point.

7. Notice in 25:13-16 that Ishmael had 12 sons, just like the 12 tribes of Israel. This, again, has been a source of conflict for the Israelites ever since.

8. In 22:1 we learn that time has passed. Isaac is likely a young teen at this point. God tells Abraham to go and sacrifice Isaac. Read aloud verse 2 where God says, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love..." The very wording drives home the point that God is calling Abraham to trust Him with the promised son. God has driven home the point to Abraham over and over that Isaac and Isaac alone is the promised son through whom the blessing is to come and now Abraham is asked to offer that son as a sacrifice.

9. Note the faith with which Abraham says that "we" will return in 22:5. While no commentary is given on Abraham's thought process here, the New Testament does give us insight. Read Hebrews 11:17-19.

10. Please remember that Isaac was not a little boy as you read 22:9. Faith an obedience were required on his part as well.

11. In 22:12-14 we see the gospel message presented thousands of years before it occurs. The ram being offered in place of Isaac is a symbol of the substitutionary atonement that was provided for us in Christ. Please read Romans 5:8.

12. In 22:15-18 God blesses Abraham again. We see that through Isaac 'all the nations on earth will be blessed'. Please read Galations 3:8-16.

Youth Council Meeting

If you are on Youth Council, don't forget that we meet this Sunday after service. Be sure to let Terry know if you are planning to attend.

More to think about while you read

These notes will add to your study of Genesis 16 - 18.

1. Genesis 16:1 lets us know that Abram and Sarai have been married for many years and are still childless. At this point in history a woman's entire identity was wrapped up in her ability to bear children. So much so that an "Old Assyrian marriage contract" included this instruction:

• "If within two years she has not procured offspring for him, only she may buy a maid-servant and even later on, after she procures somehow an infant for him, she may sell her or whatever she pleases."

What we must remember though is that, while Sarai was following the custom of her time, she was not following the word of her God. The laws of man are never to overrule the laws of God. In fact look up Proverbs 30:21-23 and you will see that God's word says "the earth cannot bear up under a servant who supplants her mistress". God had made a promise to Abram and Sarai, and because of their impatience, much misery occurred.

2. We see God caring for Hagar in 16:10-12 in His prophecy about her child. The name Ishmael means 'God hears' and it would remind Hagar of God's faithfulness. but we also see what comes of Abram and Sarai's disobedience in 16:12. Ishmael and his descendant's would be the cause of strife for the Israelites for the rest of their lives.

3. The Old Testament records many names for God. It is interesting that the only person in the OT who ever attributes a name to God is Hagar. She calls Him 'El Roi' which means 'the God who sees me.'

4. Chapter 17 records the changing of names. Abram, which means 'exalted father' is changed to Abraham which means 'father of many'. In verses 3-5 God tells Abraham that he will be the father of many nations. We often think of Abraham as the father of the Israelites, but the Bible tells us that Abraham is the father of all God's chosen people. This is spoken of in Romans 4:16-17. While Abraham is the patriarch of the Jewish nation, his descendants are all those who belong to Christ. Even in the OT God did not show favoritism toward people based on their nationality. We will see in all of God's laws, provision was made for the 'alien' who wishes to live among the Israelites. By accepting God's word they are brought into Israel. God has never been interested in one people group over another. His kingdom is for people of 'every nation, tribe, people and language' (Revelation 7:9). Sarai's name (the meaning is uncertain) was changed to Sarah which means 'princess'.

5. In Chapter 17 God introduces the covenant of circumcision. This was one of the ways God's chosen people were to set themselves apart as holy unto the Lord. While this act had spiritual significance that was to point toward the circumcision of the heart by the Holy Spirit (see Romans 2:29) it also provided physical protection for God's people.

6. As you read through chapter 18, note the references to the Lord and the three men. Verse 1 tells us that the Lord appeared to Abraham and verse 2 says that Abraham saw 3 men. In verse 16 as the 3 men are preparing to leave, the Lord speaks. In verse 22 the men left but the Lord remained with Abraham. In chapter 19 we will see that 'the two angels' arrived in Sodom. It is possible that these two angels are two of the three that were with Abraham and that the Lord was the third man. This would mean we are reading of a "Christophany" or a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ!

Some thing to think about while you read

In Genesis 12:2-3 we see God's covenant with Abram. Be sure to read of its fulfillment in Romans 4:16-17.

Keep in mind that the Bible shows us real people with all their flaws, not perfect people. Genesis 12:11-13 is the first of many times you will see a man of God who is not trusting in God to protect him and asks his wife to say she is his sister. In these times we will see that it is God who is faithful to keep his covenant even when His people are unfaithful.

In Genesis 13:14-17 we hear god telling Abram about the land he would receive. It is interesting to note that Abram himself never possessed this land, his descendants did. This is important to know when studying the Bible. The Hebrew people understood that a promise was not only for the one receiving it, but for their descendants. They thought in terms of legacy. This is very different than the way we think today in our self-absorbed society.

In Genesis 13:12 we see that Lot "pitched his tents near Sodom" which was a wicked city. In Genesis 14:12 when Lot is carried off it says he was "living in Sodom". The Bible emphasizes over and over that we cannot "flirt" with sin without being overcome by it. Lot's willingness to live near the city led to his willingness to live in the city and his eventual capture.

In Genesis 14:20 we see Abram giving the priest a 10th of everything, keep in mind that this is a very long time before the law was given that commanded a tithe. God's word is consistent from beginning to end about people bringing their offerings before him. (See Hebrews 7 for more about Melchizedek and Christ.)

In Genesis 15:17-21 we read of God's covenant with Abram. It was the custom to lay out the animals and have the two people walk between them to seal a covenant. What is interesting here is that only God passed between the pieces. This covenant was God's and he would be faithful to keep it.

Look again tomorrow for more notes!

This Week's Reading Assignment

Okay guys, this week's reading assingment is not as long as the last few weeks have been. You are going to read basically 12 chapters so 2 chapters a day will get you through it. DON'T MISS THIS WEEK'S READING!!! This is good stuff! It is foundational to the entire Bible. You will read just about everything you can think of this week, the good, the bad and the ugly! And on top of that you will see Christ in the midst of the story of Abraham. So, be sure to check your cross-references too! Don't forget, the regular type words below are your reading assignment, the (bold in parenthesis) are your cross-references.

Gen. 11:27 – 16:16 (Gen. 12:2-3=Rom. 4:16-17 / Gen. 14:18-20=Heb. 7) / Gen. 17 – 19 (Gen. 17:5=Rom. 4:16-17 & Rev. 7:9 / Gen. 17:9-14=Rom. 2:28-29) / Gen. 20 – 21 / Gen. 25:12-18 / 1 Chron. 1:28-31 / Gen. 22 (Gen. 22:5=Heb. 11:17-19 / Gen. 22:15-18=Gal. 3:8-16)

If you are using the chronological Bible this is the reading for January 18th through the beginning of January 21st. (pages 66-79) We will definately get some study helps up for you this week so check back later in the week!

See you at the pole

See you at the pole begins about 30 minutes before your first period class tomorrow morning!

Some topics to enhance your study

How is your reading going this week? You should be at least to chapter 30 by now to stay on track. Here are a few things to think about as you read this week.

In chapters 40 and 41 we read of two creatures, the behemoth and the leviathan. Some have said that the behemoth is a hippopotamus and the leviathan is the crocodile. This seems unlikely however considering their descriptions. For example, the behemoth is said to have a tail that sways like a cedar, consider the short stringy tail of a hippo. Also the leviathan is said to snort fire. It also says that the leviathan rises up, giving the picture of something on its hind legs which is something a crocodile could not do. The more logical conclusion is that these two creatures were dinosaurs. The only reason to think otherwise is if you are starting with an evolutionary presupposition which says that dinosaurs and man could not have existed together. For fun, you could try to draw a behemoth or leviathan from their description. :)

In chapter 42 we see that God is not pleased with what Job's friends have been saying. Always remember, just because someone speaks about God, it does not mean they speak for God. This is why it is so important for you to know God's word. Job's friends sounded very spiritual. Only those who know God's word intimately can test man's words and know what is true and what is false. That is why we are asking you to read the entire Bible in two years. That is why it is so important for you to keep up with your weekly reading. For knowing God's word is the only way you will be able to discern truth from lies.

This Week's Reading Assignment

Your reading assignment this week is straightforward, just finish Job. Read chapters 22 - 42. You will finally get out of the seemingly endless chapters of Job's "friends" and get to hear God speak! Let me encourage you, when you get to the chapters where God speaks - read them outloud. I know, it sounds crazy, but God says amazing things in the book of Job that you don't want to miss! Read them outloud and let the power and majesty of His word wash over you. You will not be disappointed, I promise!

By the way, I apologize for not getting the extra study helps up last week, the week got away from me, I will try to do better this week. Happy reading!

30- Hour Famine/Hay Ride

Hey guys! Don't forget that Terry needs your response ASAP about whether or not you will be attending the 30-Hour Famine. If you haven't done it yet, let him know!

This Week's Reading Assignment

Here is your reading assignment for this week. Remember, the (bold references in parenthesis) are your cross-references: Job 1 – 21 (Job 1:7=1 Pet. 5:8 / Job 1:9-12=Luke 22:31 / contrast Job 4:7 with John 9:1-3)

I know this is a lot of chapters but you can do it! Make it a point to set aside 15 minutes each day and you should be able to get through it all. Or, if you prefer, plan on reading 3 chapters every day, starting today.

Job is an amazing book and teaches us about God's sovereignty, Satan's limits, the purpose of pain, and friendship, just to name a few! You don't want to miss this stuff, it is more important to your life than any other reading assignment you will read this week.

One word of warning: A big portion of what you will read this week is Job's "friends" speeches. Don't assume that just because these words are in the Bible that they were speaking for God. In fact we will see next week how God reprimands them for their words. Be discerning as you read and try to think of ways that their words contradict other portions of scripture.

Check the blog later this week for some further study helps. Happy Reading!!

Some questions to enhance your study

Here are a few questions to get you thinking deeper about your Scripture reading this week:

1: Is there evidence for the Trinity in creation? Aside from the constant mention of "God said, let there be..." look for a reference to the Spirit in v. 2. Then look in Colossians 1:15 and John 1:1-4 and see what it says about Jesus role in creation.

2: Was Eve alone when she was tempted? What does Genesis 1:6 say?

3: In Genesis 3:21 we see the first animal sacrifice for sin. Hebrews 9:22 reminds us that only a blood sacrifice can cover sin.

4: One of the tough spots - sometimes we run across parts of scripture that sound strange or are difficult to understand. Genesis 6:4 is one of those verses and some have been led to believe that the Nephilim were "bred" by humans having relationship with demons. There are problems with this theory though, so let's note a few points:

• Demons do not have creative power, therefore they cannot take on human form. While it is true that we see examples of angels coming in human form in the scriptures, they do so God's messengers at God's command. They do not have the prerogative to take human form at their own volition.
• While it is true that Scripture supports the idea that demons can possess a person, a child conceived by a possessed person would not be half human and half demon. Demons are fallen-angels and are not sexual creatures, therefore they cannot reproduce.
• The idea that demons could take on human form presents huge problems for the authenticity of the resurrection of Christ. When Jesus appeared to his disciples after the resurrection he said to them, "a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." (Luke 24:39) If in fact a demon could take on human form then the disciples could have no assurance that Jesus was really raised. It could in fact have been a demon masquerading as Jesus to deceive them. If demons could take on physical form at will, we would have no reason to believe the resurrection account.

So, what do the phrases "sons of God" and "daughters of men" mean? The sons of God is a reference to those called by God. The daughters of men is a reference to those who were in rebellion against God. This is a reference to the wickedness of men that leads to the flood.

I hope these items will enhance your study this week. Remember, you only have one more day to get your reading done! See you Sunday!

Sunday School Reading

This is just a note to remind you that you should be at least half-way through your reading for Sunday if you are going to keep on track! See you Sunday!

Spaghetti Dinner

Don't forget that the Spaghetti Dinner is this Wedneday night. Show up by 4:30 if you intend to work!

Neighborhood Blitz

Don't forget the Neighborhood Blitz!!

September 11 · 10:00am

We'll meet at the church and go from there. Should take about 2 hours.

Week 1 Reading Assignment

Here is your week 1 reading assignment. Please note that the regular type-face words are your chronological reading and the (bold type-face words in parenthesis) are your cross-references.

Genesis 1-5 (Gen. 1:26=Col. 1:15 & John 1:1-4 / Gen. 3:14-15=1 John 3:8, Gal. 4:4 & Heb. 2:14 / Gen. 3:17-19=1 Cor. 15:21-22 / Gen. 3:21=Heb. 9:22) / 1 Chron. 1:1-4 / Gen. 6-9 / 1 Chron. 1:5-7 / Gen. 10:6-20 / 1 Chron. 1:8-16 / Gen. 10:21-11:26 / 1 Chron. 1:17-27

If you are using the One-Year Chronological Bible this equates to days 1-4 of their reading plan.

If you were not in Sunday School today be sure to come on Wednesday night as there will be more information presented on this lesson. Also, be sure to pick up the handouts that you missed. Finally, if you haven't already gotten a 3-ring binder be sure to get one soon. You will want want for the materials you will be getting.

We hope you enjoy this study. If you have any comments or questions about this week's lesson, be sure to leave them below!

Welcome!

Welcome to our new blog. We hope you will find this a useful tool as you study through the scripture each week. Please feel free to use this page to discuss what you are learning or ask questions. Just leave a comment under the weekly post to get the discussion started!